Lisa Graves is a legal activist and the author of a remarkable and terrifying book, Without Precedent, that documents the assault on democracy via the story of John Roberts. I spoke with her about how America has come to its current state, and what the future may hold:
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TRANSCRIPT:
Paul Krugman in Conversation with Lisa Graves
(recorded 4/9/26)
Paul Krugman: I’m speaking today with Lisa Grave...
The strongest version of this narrative highlights a systemic capture of democratic institutions by concentrated wealth, with the Supreme Court as a critical lever. Graves presents a compelling case that decisions like *Bush v. Gore* and *Citizens United* were not isolated rulings but part of a broader, decades-long strategy to entrench corporate and billionaire influence. The conflicts of interest—such as Clarence Thomas's participation in cases where his wife had financial stakes—are particula...